Money for your hobby - Petition for Macs

[Kitty Hello]

Hi,

here in Krautland we say "You don't talk about money, you just have it". Well, or not.
Today I extended the Apple developership for 65,- EUR / year and was nosy to see how much I made with my games so far.
As you know or not, I have about 6 apps in the Apple App Store. 3 of them bring in money, the others not a penny.
However, even if Wumbo and Spy's Kit don't sell as I wish, they do sell somehting that sums up to better than nothing.
So, for today I totally eaned 2250,- EUR from the App Store, of which 1870,- come from Dr. Shiver.
So, even if you drop my "flagship" (still no idea why this and not Wumbo) there's 400,- this year from the others.
I really want to encourage everyone to consider this investment if you have a nice game done just for fun. There's a lot of great things I've seen so far and I really wish you could also slightly benefit from your great work.
Really, Dr. Shiver  _is_ total shite in comparison to what many of _you_ showed.

So, there might be people saying: "We have no moneyto get a Mac  and an iPod and the 65,- dev license", but have awesome stuff available.
And this is where my idea kicks in. The idea is to establish a company, where everyone of you can submit their GLBasic games plus a petition that sponsors Macs and iPods to who needs one.
After a game is submitted, the earnings are split up by the amount you donated to the "get a mac" fond (minus the money you previously took to get your Mac for free).

Do you understand what I mean by this? Is it a good or a bad idea?

[Kuron]

In theory it is a good idea, but I wouldn't want to be the one implementing/running it.

Macs are a double-edged sword.  That is where so much of the money is for indie developers, but they are priced out of range for most indie developers.  And for those of us who live below the poverty level, Macs are just a pipe dream.

[Schranz0r]

Good idea!

[matchy]

Great idea and I think there would be support for it. Apple should really do something like this for developers as I'm sure many would like to be up to date with hardware.   

Pardon my travelers cliches "It's not the destination, but the journey" and "what's at the end of the rainbow". In other words, we aim high and one day all the company members will all travel to Krautland for a GLBasic convention. 

Where do I sign up!

[Quentin]

good idea for those who want to develop for Mac, but be careful. If Steve Jobs will know about this, maybe you'll
be banned from AppStore

[Ian Price]

I'm interested, however there will be lots of logistic issues with regard to our games/apps. and repayment.

Eg -

1. There's no guarantees that money would be generated by games that look like potential money-spinners
2. Who would be responsible for separating the wheat from the chaff? How?
3. How many developers could be offered a "free" Mac at any one time
4. How will we know if/when our apps have succeeded in repaying the loan?

And many others that I dare not ask at this point!

etc.
etc.
etc.

but I'm still very  interested, seeing as I have no Mac or iPhone/iPod Touch or Ipad. Even more so that there will soon be a Mac IDE.

[bigsofty]

Sounds good. Am I right in assuming that this company would be a publisher or is it just for financing the initial equipment?

[Neurox]

Do you understand what I mean by this? Is it a good or a bad idea?

Yes, it's a good idea!

[gigios]

I agree!

I don't love Apple for its policy of closures, but, with this initiative, could make me more interest to the world of apple.

[Scott_AW]

@kitty hello - You should put the games that aren't selling well on one of those play sites that give you ad revenue, at least then you'll be making something.  Or port them to other devices easier to publish for.

I think Apple is starting to go suicidal in their recent activities, there's a lot of factors that are piling up against them.  But that's just my view, they could turn around.

[monono]

Firstly I really appreciate that you do talk about money. Seriously I never start a game without have some future earnings in mind. The sad thing is I never got that far, because the last 10% for the commercial quality polish is a hell of a job. The good thing is, that I always have some guidelines in my head stopping me from just hack things together.

@ Kitty: The Idea is great. I think the problem is the beginning of starting that company. LetÃ,´s say there are 5 people with a decent game without a mac and phone to compile. Who is giving them a Mac in the first place? What if he or she does not finish the game, the game is crap or is just looking for a cheap way to get a new computer?
@ Quentin: Why should Steven care. Just an ordinary publisher contract. Nothing illegal -> he makes money.
@ matchy: I want that convention.

[Kitty Hello]

The idea would be to start a petition that must once have enough money for "one" Mac/iPod combo. The games to be submitted should be voted by the people who financed the thing and the best vote gets the mac. More to follow when there's enough money in the box.
The others still can develop on GLB and the Mac-user(s) can compile/test/upload for those who have no Mac, yet.
The team need one "chief" but there's options to view the earned money for others with a developer team access password I did that with Trucidare already). So, there's no "hidden" earnings that cheaters could use.
The seperating of the shares should be scripted and executed using PayPal (I think that would work - even if not totally automatically, but semi automatic).
I'm uncertain if Apple can directly connect to an PayPay account, but there might be ways to automate that (might need a separate credit card for that).
The security issues do concern me, though. How to keep track of who donated how much reliably? But I think paypal payments can be forwarded safely to a php-site.

[matchy]

Supposedly if you wanted to kickstart the progress, perhaps we could use many of the existing website systems that cater for team projects. 

[Kitty Hello]

I'm uncertain if they can cope with that requirements. What you need is a database anda php script that keeps track on donations to the project, and the people who did donate.
Somehting like:

Code (glbasic) Select Expand




A,B,C = paypal accounts of people who contribute
P     = project paypal acount. There should be 2-3 people resonsible for that + contracts so noone makes abuse.

If you donate to the project, a php script must be kicked to update the database. That should be easy to realize. I did that with Share-It and Avantgarde.

A->P 1000 (EUR)
B->P 500
C->P 5 (poor chap)
(I used very high ammounts here, to simplify the number of users.)


C now has a great game but no Mac. So the project buys him one. That must be done with a semi-automatic website klick that prepares a PayPay donation from P to C.
P->C 500 (gets a Mac+iPod)

Stands so far:
  P:    1005
  Name  donate credit
  A:    1000     0
  B:     500     0
  C:       5   500

C writes a game that earns, say 1500 EUR now.
Apple->P 1500

This income will be added to C's donation, so:
Stands so far:
  P:    2505
  Name: donate credit
  A:    1000     0
  B:     500     0
  C:    1505   500

Now we share the income:
P = 2505. Keep, say, 500 as a buffer, share the 2005 free floating money.
Sum up all the donates:
don = 1000 + 500 + 1505 = 3005
Divide and multiply the share
factor = 2005 / 3005 = 0.6667
A = 1000 * 0.667 =  666.67
B =  500 * 0.667 =  333.33
C = 1505 * 0.666 = 1004.17
                   -------
                  ~2005.00 qed

Now, as long as there s credit, the credit will be repaid. The rest gets to the paypal accout:
P->A 666
P->B 333
P->C'c credit 500 (that's just intenal in the database)
P->C 1004.17-500 = 504.17


I also think that when new projects to upload are presented, the "donate" factor should be applied when voting for "yes, host" or "no, improve the game". Same goes for the "who get's a Mac first" queue.
In that case you get a list of projects that apply to to get a Mac. Each donator picks "one" that he thinks is worthmost to be realized. Weightened by the donate-factor the project with the most appeal gets the Mac.

[D2O]

Kann das einer mal grob für mich übersetzen.
Büüüttte.