Design Tools

[HamishTPB]

How do GLB people design their masterpieces before the coding starts? Does anyone know of any (preferably FOSS) storyboarding and design applications or similar. How do GLB people manage projects? I know it is best to have as much done as possible before even touching code but I often don't know how to organise and prepare even when I have great ideas.

Or do you all just scribble stuff down on the back of an envelope and fire up the IDE? 

Any input on how others deal with the pre-production would be greatly received.

Thanks 

[erico]

Real pre stuff usually done on paper with these: (I have a couple)
http://www.glbasic.com/forum/index.php?topic=7437.0

Then I get a set of TODO in a notepad on second monitor+the paper notebook with a timeline all fine and designed.

....then I fast guerrilha code stuff to the point things are so interlaced there is no use rewriting parts but to prey no bugs come around
Good thing I end up learning a lot to implement on next project.

[HamishTPB]

Hehe - I am glad I am not the only one who has this sort of approach - code first and damn them all!

The bits of paper and old envelopes etc are getting out of hand. I do have a whiteboard on the wall now but it is already full of other stuff - the equivalent of bits of paper for a dozen projects and ideas. 

[erico]

The guerrilha code has some pros, like real fast feedback on an idea, but it sucks as game gets complex.
It is good to learn though.

I just got back to my game and took a full day to re-understand the documented code+paper stuff.
After a while, I drop the paper and keep it all into second monitor into notepads docs.

Game is here, there is come info on how it is getting made:
http://www.glbasic.com/forum/index.php?topic=9354.0

Hopefully as I finish it, I can get a nice pdf done with all info on development.

[HamishTPB]

Yeah, to learn and develop coding skills the hit and run approach is ok but I have some bigger ideas I want to do "properly" :-)

Got an old school RPG engine idea I have been meaning to get done for ages and ages but it is too complex to just hack together.

[HamishTPB]

You have an advantage over me Erico - I can't draw at all.

[erico]

An artist, writer or a musician can´t do a computer game alone, a coder can. I have no advantage here.

What do you mean by RPG? like a zelda stuff? Or more like dungeon master?
Yep, bigger projects need better planning.

[HamishTPB]

Kind of like Dungeon Master or Xenomorph from the ST/Amiga. Mainly aimed at the GP2X - Pandora series of handhelds. Probably android as well since it is easy-ish with GLB. Not just a fixed game like those but an engine that hopefully others will design adventures for as well.

There is no profit to be made but lots of scope for good native games on GP2X/Wiz/Caanoo/Pandora.

Re: skills - I can do music, writing, sound fx and coding but I suck at graphics, really really suck.

p.s. I love it when the tree starts dancing on its roots in your game.

[erico]

Nice.

Oh I forgot all about Xenomorph! I remember that game from screen shots on magazines and always promissed myself to get it, but when my amiga arrived I totally forgot it forever till now.

If you are looking into an engine then for sure a good planning or code design will be useful.
Matchy is also looking into something similar and possibly another forum user too.

Are you looking into an engine that will require GLBasic code or something like standalone with editors and so on?

[HamishTPB]

Ideally I will create a standalone editor for it.

Xenomorph was one of my favourite ST games, well worth firing up an emulator or digging out your ST/Amiga to play. It is a very big game and making or DLing maps is a good idea.

I will look at what other people are doing too, thanks. 

[erico]

Just checked a youtube video on it.

I prefer the Hired Guns style with +3 friends... sentry guns placed, everybody in position, open that door... chaos and everyone shooting each other.

I have an RPG in mind too, it has a few concepts drawn and a bit of design too, nothing showy.
Here I thought to make use of Y dimension like hired guns, push the game style more towards blade runner.

Concerning a visual system, on a traditional take, you have a tile for the floor,walls and ceiling + tiles for the same further away into perspective.
I stepped working on it while wondering about the matrix or 3d grid the thing take place. I think Matchy is also thinking about this too on that INPUT thread.
It is tought to set a perspective and scale.

I´m adding a standard simple 3d grid here so you can see cubes as rooms
In my case, I wanted each room cube to be split into 4 tall blocks and then to work really low res tiles on them. I was also leaning towards a more teleobjective visual then the standards. Break all cubes into 4 cubes for some special objects like cars. But I never advanced that idea as of yet. I´m not sure I´m making much sense, but I hope I can get back to it this or next year. Working with a static 3d minecraft way would not be a bad idea either on the economy of sprite tiles.   

EDIT: there is a chance I might make a game like that but based on pictures sometime this year though. I´m not sure I´m up to the task of breaking all sprites and blocks to create random city environments blade runner style. It might just be a too big of a jump for me.

[HamishTPB]

The scale I am thinking of is much smaller than that, self-contained environments like space bases, dungeons etc for now. Outdoor environments start presenting their own challenges to create - having said that I had also thought about something akin to Lords of Midnight/Doomdark's revenge as I was working this idea over.
This has gone quite far off topic now, sorry - perhaps a kind admin could move it?

[erico]

Maybe we can ask one to move things if you want, but it still a single page, it is fine.
We should make a RPG THOUGHTS thread to discuss such there as it is a topic that shows up into many others.

Edit: made a topic for us to discuss adventures/rpg stuff done in GLB here: http://www.glbasic.com/forum/index.php?topic=9819.0

[mentalthink]

Well I don't counsil my "technic" , I come from 3D but today I don't make any skecth, I put in front computer and I begin to draw , for GLbasci it's the same I never wrote in paper the code...

Sometimes in over a "Veleda" Desk I put some ideas , but basically for don't forget them...

[Ian Price]

I've never resorted to pen and paper either - either for my code or my graphics. I have a mental image of how I want the game to look and play; I then code and/or draw until my game is how I wanted it. Anything less and I'm not happy.