Author Topic: GLB Support for 4k monitors?  (Read 2771 times)

Offline CW

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GLB Support for 4k monitors?
« on: 2014-Jan-28 »
Has anyone seen the new 4k TVs?  :happy:
I am salivating at the idea of getting my hands on a 4k monitor and a graphics card to drive it. Because the pixels are four times smaller, the images are razor sharp. Cell phones and casino game machines are leading the way with this sort of image quality. For the PC, the technology is so new that there currently are no applications, operating systems (Windows), games, movies, or other software to support it, but I expect that to change in the next year or so. Once you see it, you've gotta have it.

I was curious if GLBasic plans to support such resolutions? (Is it even practical to dream so?) Wouldn't it be great to render drawings at 4K resolutions where each pixel is almost too small to see? True, every page would take 16 times longer to render on a pixel-by-pixel bases, but I can think of some great applications that I'd like to try, where speed isn't an issue. As for game creation, we might be able to load a background at 4K resolution and then move sprites in 4-bit increments without losing much to appearance or game performance. But then, I don't know anything about the heavy lifting which goes on in the background of GLB. What do you think? Might GLB be able to handle 4K? Is that something worth dreaming about?

-Science_1 

(PS, As it turns out Windows 8.1 can handle Ultra High-def; and also, apparently, can some games. See the Forbes article on a 4k game-PC system build.)
« Last Edit: 2014-Jan-28 by CW »

Offline spacefractal

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Re: GLB Support for 4k monitors?
« Reply #1 on: 2014-Jan-28 »
that require more assests and more pc power. Even today pc games might struggle to devier a nice 4k in framerate. So personly im have absolutte no plans at all. on a danish website a poll did also say its simply too early by now.

When that is said, when Apple released its Retina iPad, glbasic worked for that out of of the box, so there is no problems for glbasic at all. a more problem can howover been the texture size due 4096x4096 is not supported by all graphics cards.

So its more depend on the graphics card used, not glbasic itself.....
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Offline CW

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Re: GLB Support for 4k monitors?
« Reply #2 on: 2014-Jan-28 »
Hi Spacefractal. Thanks for the reply. Just so I am clear, are you saying that if I did a SETSCREEN 7072, 3688, TRUE and had the ram, graphic cards, monitor and drivers to support it, GLB could handle it, even though performance would suffer? Or would I be limited to a SETSCREEN 1768,922,FALSE window on the ultra high-def screen, but that GLB would run just fine?

Right after I made my post, I did some browsing on the web. It turns out that early 4K PC systems are currently possible for under $2500. If you are interested, check out this Forbes article.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2014/01/26/how-to-build-a-4k-gaming-pc-for-less-than-2500-ultra-hd-monitor-ssd-and-windows-included/
I think these system will be here sooner rather than later. Indeed, they are here already.

-Science_1
« Last Edit: 2014-Jan-28 by CW »

Offline spacefractal

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Re: GLB Support for 4k monitors?
« Reply #3 on: 2014-Jan-28 »
we was in the eailier concerned when glbasic supported iPad Retina screen or not, which was new and bigger in that time (2048×1536). Its turned out its was no problem at all and supported nice out of the box.

When that is said, glbasic should not have problem with even higher resoulutions as long its support the current texture size used by the assets files (my graphicscard seen to been supports 16kb texture size, while ouya only supports 2kb).

Personly im set a resoulutions at 9999x9998 and then checking the current desktop resoulutions and then uses and scaling to that.

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Offline fuzzy70

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Re: GLB Support for 4k monitors?
« Reply #4 on: 2014-Jan-28 »
If you done "SETSCREEN 7072, 3688, TRUE" then you are bordering on the successor to 4K which is 8K. 4K resolutions are typically 3840 x 2160 in normal 16:9 TV ratios (other ratios exist for cinema etc but I wont complicate the issue).

4K PC's have been available for a while, albeit in professional usage or personal usage with people with more money than sense, most mid-high end gfx cards can output 4K & it's not really different from the jump from 1024x768 to 1920x1080 in that more data needs to be pushed around so a more powerful card is preferable.

The operating system & applications (GLB included) don't really care what resolution you output at as to them a pixel is just a pixel, as Spacefractal mentioned a some gfx cards/drivers have a maximum texture resolution of 4096x4096 but not all & that is the restricting factor. Another thing is scale, in that you end up enlarging your icons/text/gfx etc otherwise you can't see what icon you have clicked or menu you have selected.

Resolutions that high have their uses but it is mainly to do with display sizes. It's like comparing my 22" desktop monitor to a 50" monitor both running at full HD, the pixels are just noticeable on my 50" LCD when viewing from the correct distance but if I move closer to the same distance as I use my PC monitor they become extremely visible. Same goes for my phone & tablet in that they are both full HD however I cannot see the pixels on my phone (5" display) even very close up but I can on my tablet (10.1" display) but when I am that close to the tablet I can't use it unless I use my nose for input lol (& possibly cross my eyes  :D)

That is why Apple came out with retina, which to all intents & purposes is just a name for what they perceive the human eye can distinguish pixel wise in relation to display size & operating distance. Hence why the iPad & iPhone etc resolutions are different even though they are called "Retina" displays.

Another point worth mentioning is that having 4K displays is great from an Art point of view (i.e static images) they tend to lose their benefits when it comes to moving images such as games or movies unless you are very close or it's a very big display & tbh when playing games or watching a film you should be taking in the full image, plus movement blurs a fair amount of the resolution gain.

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Offline CW

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Re: GLB Support for 4k monitors?
« Reply #5 on: 2014-Jan-29 »
Thanks to everyone for your very thoughtful replies. It seems like good news for GLB all the way around.

To Fuzzy, yeah I went to the extreme when I chose the 7072 x 3688 numbers, for the sake of my question. You are correct as to 4K resolutions. The Forbes article referenced a 3840 x 2160 for 4K.

Like you, I can't see the pixels on my htc one smart phone either. I once read about what is called the Letcher distance, which is the typical distance people view their TVs from. The Letcher distance (spelling?) is 9 feet. At that distance, for a TV with a (is it 50 or 60 inch) screen, standard high def provides the maximum resolution that the human eye is physically capable of seeing. So for TV viewing at the Letcher distance on normal sized screens, the new 4k format is a waste. It's like snapping a four mega-pixel photo and then displaying it to friends on your phone. The phone physically can't show all that data, so you are way passed the point of utility. If you can't see the pixels, why do you need more of them? That is what the Letcher distance is all about.

However as TV screens grow ever larger, standard high-def is no longer up to the task and 4k systems come into their own. This is why most 4k screens on display are HUGE. You are all but invited to walk right up to the screen, and the detail you can see on them is stunning. With computers, people sit much closer than 9 feet to their screens and more pixels make for a much sharper image than we currently enjoy. Imagine the fidelity of your your iphone write large. I'm talking an iPad with a 32 inch screen. Imagine gaming on that! God it makes me drool. I dream of the day I can do things like render a Mandelbrot fractal on a screen of that size. If it takes eight hours to render it, that's just fine. I'd do a screen capture and use it as my wallpaper. lol

Anyway, it's fun to dream. Thanks all!

-Science_1 
« Last Edit: 2014-Jan-29 by CW »

Offline Ian Price

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Re: GLB Support for 4k monitors?
« Reply #6 on: 2014-Jan-29 »
320x240 or 640x480 is good enough for me. Why mess with the best! :P :D
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Offline mentalthink

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Re: GLB Support for 4k monitors?
« Reply #7 on: 2014-Jan-29 »
CW don't worry when the enterprises put in mode the watches I think we work in 120x120... In some years we working in 2x2 pixels... now it's the mode of the brick phones but sure... I rebember some years ago, the thing was who have the phone more little... Extrange human behaviour... like monkeys one copy of another  :D :D :D =D =D =D

Offline hardyx

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Re: GLB Support for 4k monitors?
« Reply #8 on: 2014-Jan-29 »
With a thousand of pixels you'll need a more powerful processor to move the images smooth. I don't find the inspiration to develop for the hyper realist and enormous device screens that will come in next years. I'm a classic.