Creating a game similar to IF graphic adventures or Dungeon Master is a topic that usually pops into other threads,
so maybe we can concentrate the discussion here instead?
Are you working on such? Have some ideas about it to share?
Following from that other thread: (Thanks to Ian for moving it) :good:
I have spent a bit of time today trying to work out some dimensions. Since I am mainly interested in running my engine on hand-helds (GP2X up to Pandora) I have been wondering what size the play area should be, I think my graphical needs would be a lot less than some of the other ideas around the forum. I expect a "wall tile" would be about 100px square at one unit distance from the player and the sprite for a humanoid would be around 30px by 90px at one unit distance. So the view window would be around 200x160 pixels I think. That would leave room on one side and the bottom for info and icons. Need to charge some batteries to try some graphics on the GP2X screen (why didn't they make the DC socket bigger!?) but this looks about right roughed up on my monitor.
If you need test I have a caanoo here too. But you can also test on a paint program, using the native target resolutions resolution to design a layout.
I remember the games you stated, they had a more graphic adventure approach to visuals. I also recall ISHAR on the amiga did a fabulous job on the tiled first person style, in and outdoors environment, specially ISHAR 3. I´m not sure about gp2x, but a caanoo is 320x240 and a pandora is 800x480. Probably 400x200 is a good target resolution to scale to both with little loss on the caanoo or gp23x sides. Pandora scaled 2x. 200x160 seems to fit fine into it then.
In my avocado game, which is to work on a caanoo/pandora/android, I ended up choosing a base resolution of 428x240, so to fit the many androids better, maybe it could be usefull to you too?
You seem to have choosen a bard´s tale approach to visuals. Matchy was also talking about other styles, like isometric filmation(last ninja/cadaver) etc.
One style I like a lot, is the ALIEN on the c64. It was room based like DM but it scrolled like a panoramic view.
In my case, I intended a bard´s tale look with smaller tiles, destructible environment and Y axis. Too big of a jump for my coding abilities yet.
So It´s better I start with a simple 2d GFX IF with pictures. :-[
Internally, such a game is pretty much grid based on an array like a Rogue like game. So maybe a simple rogue is a good start?
EDIT: a link to a remake of the old msx/c64 alien into PC http://derbian.webs.com/lv-426/
Yeah the entire GP2X line is 320x240 so the Wiz and Caanoo are the same.
My idea is also along the rogue-like idea with movement based on "squares" of movement to simplify a few things in the engine.
Actually the view area I mentioned doesn't need to be so limited on the hand-helds since there is no need for on-screen controls just information about stamina, current weapons etc. and the areas I thought about for movement controls would only be needed on the android version where there is more space anyway. Movement and most controls would be with the hardware controls on the GP2X/Wiz/Caanoo/Pandora. Working this out as I go along (lots of scribbles in my pad and terrible gimp artwork).
I need to spend €30 with Evil Dragon to get a new board for my bricked Caanoo and I am desperate to get an Open Pandora but money is tight at the moment. There is one at a decent price on eBay at the moment and I have no money :puke:
Oh yeah - I remember seeing that Aliens game on a friends C64 (I was a Spectrum / Atari 8-bit person). :good:
Another idea of the sort of view (but not necessarily the gameplay) I have in mind would be Xybots (Atari Lynx and others).
Edit: The reason I am talking about these games is that I have virtually no 3D experience so I am thinking of a sprite based engine but perhaps 3D is not too scary?
Xybots was really good.
I think if you use the 3d only for the display, and keep the game internals into a 2d turn based stuff then all should be simple.
It is what I thought to show the dungeon´s GFX. It should also strike a huge economy into textures tiles as you can use the front one to texture sides.
Maybe start with flat cubes and fog to get a hang of it is a good idea. :good:
:doubt: I am a bit scared of 3D, pathetic I know! :-) But I imagine I can get my head around it if I give it a go and it would certainly make a better look to try what you suggest.
The more I think about the interface the more I come to the realisation that a more modern approach would be to have a HUD rather than a flick screen approach, pop-up inventory/spells/tech menus etc.
My brain is getting tired from thinking about this all day long :)
If design using 3d. Screen ratio is not really a issue as well any resolutions/scaling to fit it. It's more how 2d assest is using and how the interface was designed.
Also if design like hired guns, the screen might just got few pixels wider or move them few pixels more to side in their split screen. Resolution here is more important in the person view here.
I'm have seen a remake of the c64 aliens game under another name. But some time ago. Here the wider resolution would never been a issue.
my latest game was designed with 960x640 to 1280x720 in mind and used none scaling graphics, but might scroll between, if bigger/lesser it's uses scaling or uses retina version. But it's was a 2d game and did not fixed in one resolution.
Yep, 3d could be a good start.
Probably by doing polygoon fill style like Cimeeon moon (or just cubes) would be great to get a perspective and number of blocks to get an idea of grid space. :good:
Matchy? you around?
That is an interesting looking game and is what I was sort of imagining. Visually a better example than Dungeons Of Daggorath but I do wonder about an outdoor. Gruds In Space is also another favorite both in layout and story-task.
It would be nice to share ideas to form a game together but, more meaningfully, I think realistically that we break them up such as like the old mini-challenges so that we don't linger.
Hey Erico this game you put the image looks very nice, old but looks fantastic...
About make something in 3D, rally it's easy the great problem comes if you have animated charactes and complex animation (well if use 3D max don't too much problem the xporter did Vladimir runs like a charm in any version of 3ds max).
How says Erico begin with some boxes or makeing some Groups of tunels, like a mountage Kit can be good, a good point for runs in GPX well can be use a Windows , don't using the 320x240, and leave in "Black" the 2D part of the Screen for thext and 2D grapchis... and Using littles textures for far and " big" tectures for near I think this can works fine in a GPX... don't use light and litghting into the 3D suite, for use a light Map...
If you need some model, please comment me and I do a couple of tunnels if you need...
About speak RPG, really I don't have any idea, I never play to Zelda or some similar Game, bascially in CPC I think this game don't appears for my Machine....
Interesting thread , at least for my it's a good source of info about the RPG's...
It is worth pointing out that my reason for wanting to make a Xenomorph / Dungeon Master style game is to create a native GP2X/Wiz/Caanoo/Pandora game, not to compete with something like Grimrock in the mainstream. It is likely that I will make a build for Android and Linux desktop as well since I use those but the main drive is to make a handheld RPG.
Edit: And the reason for thinking along the lines of creating not just a game but an engine is the hope that other people will give me something to play as well :D
Question for network coders:
A quick thought about a hired guns multiplayer. Would it be possible to do it net play and hot seat?
Considering it is, what would be the chances of it being multiplayer amongst different devices?
I mean, on all desktops it would show 4 players, either local or networked, so you also see other people´s screens, but smaller devices would show only your own screen.
I was thinking to be worth to give a try on coding a quick game (where people could chip in) into the style, but I can only code for local players, no net skills.
Better thinking about the style, it would be easier to do it 3d, but run the the game on an array.
Just some thoughts.
If anyone needs a random 3d multi-level maze generator algorithm, I can outline how I did the algorithm for my 3d maze game below.
My game isn't of the styles mentioned above, but the code could be used to generate random levels, if the game design could accommodate it.
The screenshot is from outside the level (in my game you only walk 'on' the maze', not 'in' the maze, I twiddled my code for this screenshot to generate square tube hallways instead of flat).
Now, imagine these square tubes being replaced by Erico's hexagonal hallways above. As long as the 3d models align evenly at 'one world unit' intervals, the level should align properly.
I use 7 unique maze tile pieces to 'glue' together to display any maze combination.
It seems that my idea for a modular system would be doomed to fail on the hand held systems because of wasted resources. Having said that there is no harm in building a modular source-based RPG where the maker of the individual adventure could optimise the built game for final play.
Quote from: HamishTPB on 2014-Jun-06
... a modular system would be doomed to fail on the hand held systems because of wasted resources...
You sure? what do you mean by that?
The ideas I had for a modular system would basically have an engine with resources to handle every possible game resource (characters, enemies, NPCs, hand-hand weapons, ranged weapons, spells/technology, locations, objects(treasure chest/computer terminal/old west piano) and every possible action (how resource x affects resource y) to allow the freedom for one system to be a dungeon crawler or a space epic. Updates to the engine would add more resources as a game required them, this would probably lead to a bloated system. :puke:
This is only if it is to be completely end-user modular. Like I say, having a similar system to what I envisaged but with a build-time optimisation would still allow savvy users to make their own adventures. :good:
Given the target market, making an end-user modular system will probably not be worth it compared to the effort of making it. If something gets a bit of notice and it seems to be worthwhile to make a commercial version then that would change things but as it is, the time is probably best spent making the actual games and reusing the code where possible for the next adventure.
The RPG idea is not "next on the list" of things to make anyway - I want to walk before I start running and do some simpler games to get myself back into the swing of coding and get used to what I need to do to optimise and adjust for different target platforms. Most of my ideas live for a long time before becoming active projects - there are notebooks full of stuff and I just add to them when I have an idea for that project, even if it is not immediately feasible to work on it. There are a lot of games to get out of my system on the pages of those books :P
The idea is not confined to here of course: http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/16251-a-pyra-game-in-development/ (http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/16251-a-pyra-game-in-development/)
Perhaps, especially given the size of such a project, a collaboration would be more fruitful. I suppose that is why erico made this topic.
EDIT: The thought also occurs that there may be some suitable engine(s) already ported to the hand-helds to make adventures for, also making better use of time and ideas but none of the ones I have looked at have been of the flavour I wanted (that Dungeon Master/Xenomorph style). There are a lot of projects out there and open-source means that something abandoned or unfinished can be picked up too. One way or another I will get my adventures to the GP2X/Wiz/Caanoo and Pandora communities :-)
Erico: I hope you don't think I am trying to put you down or be unnecessarily negative, I am just trying to keep myself in check and not get too excited or too far ahead of myself. :whip:
I want to avoid starting projects that just become vapourware :puke:
Hugs for Erico :)
Oh no it is fine. I just didnt have time to properly answer yet. Im away from home for a few days. Looking for new house. So time is short.
I thought this thread to be more of idea and discussions on the subject since lots of people here have adventures ideas foing about.
I asked about the system because everyrhing i put on cannoo works nice. I dont see a reason your system could not make it into.
I will better answer as i move to new house. Right now it is a mess here for at least a week.
as for the hires guns. This was acutelly a SP game, where you controlled all players by your self and me thinks was designed in that way. For networking play, synchronization is often the biggest issue for network games (there often cause lags if you are not aware of that). This is not a issue on a local gameplay at all, but that could works quite very nice for example on Ouya and GameStick.
For control, mouse could also just been controlled with the joypad if required, if its not a 100% action game.
Xybots did have turns animation in the arcades, never seen in any home ports as im are aware of, but its was a fun maze game, and could been fun to do a remake of as a 3d game, but with same gameplay.
Quote from: spacefractal on 2014-Jun-10
For networking play, synchronization is often the biggest issue for network games (there often cause lags if you are not aware of that).
I feel that's a topic for a whole new thread and is something that concerns me in general design. Although for an A/RPG, turn based would be more suitable. Even to the effect of using simple web get and posts for data if need be rather than pushing/pulling realtime tcp/ucp packets for action games. :whistle: Unlike MUDs and choose your own adventure, do multiplayer adventure network games exist?
Agreed. It doea interest me pretty much. Here i would like to a simple odds/even hand numbera type game just to get an idea of where to start exactly since i have completly zero notion on how/where to start.
Here a good first person block example in html5.
http://gamejolt.com/games/rpg/lands-of-lorez/27439/
IMHO the most difficult task of RPG game are the formula combats and balancing stats of hero, enemys, etc...
I need some help about this....
Any good tutorial ?
Quote from: Hark0 on 2014-Jun-17
IMHO the most difficult task of RPG game are the formula combats and balancing stats of hero, enemys, etc...
I need some help about this....
Any good tutorial ?
Had the same Problem when trying to get formulas down for this too.
My approach:
1. The player / Enemy needs basic stats that grow with EXP ( those stats can only be permamently changed )
2. Only Items can Offset the Primary stat values temporary
function getPrimaryStat: i as int // i is the type of stat (ie.: 0 : strength, 1: stamina ... )
return Player.stats[ i ] + Player.equip.statOfs[ i ]
// + Player.tempEffect[ i ] for holding temporary changes that result in using an item
// (ie. strength potion )
endfunction
// you could also use getAttack as function name and return Player.attack + Player.attackOf
// so the code is better readable, however way more functions are needed then
// the Player.equip[ i ].statOfs[ i ] is the sum of all equiped items primari stat offsets.
// So making a list of stat values and corresponding stat names is important.
3. Based on those stats calculate secondary stats like attack , def
( all the stats that can be changed temporary by equiping items )
4. Items Hold only secondary stats and offsets for primary stats
5. All those stats Items hold will be added together using a function and stored in a list for each entity that can equip items.
6. So a secondary stat like attack can be calculated like this
function getSecondaryStat: i as int
return Player.equip.stats[ i ] + getPrimaryStat( i )
//return all items added attack stats + Player strength stat + item strength offset
// of course you can calculate the strength stat as a percentual value to a Max Strength value //marking 100% of strength ( 100% can be exceeded ) and multiply it with the items added attack //stats:
return Player.equip.stats[ i ] * ( getPrimaryStat( i ) ) / MaxStat[ i ] )
endfunction
7. then this secondary stat ( ie. attack ) can be used to calculate damage, based on the enemys secondary stat ( ie. defense ) , his element...
This resulted by the following needs:
-Primary stats should only be calculated each Lvl up, beacause I wanted the player to decide on his grow type almost freely ( also dependant on his class ) each level up.
-I didn´t want to limit any stat to certain item types.