The "Design That Adventure/RPG" thread.

[erico]

Creating a game similar to IF graphic adventures or Dungeon Master is a topic that usually pops into other threads,
so maybe we can concentrate the discussion here instead?

Are you working on such? Have some ideas about it to share?

[HamishTPB]

Following from that other thread: (Thanks to Ian for moving it) 

I have spent a bit of time today trying to work out some dimensions. Since I am mainly interested in running my engine on hand-helds (GP2X up to Pandora) I have been wondering what size the play area should be, I think my graphical needs would be a lot less than some of the other ideas around the forum. I expect a "wall tile" would be about 100px square at one unit distance from the player and the sprite for a humanoid would be around 30px by 90px at one unit distance. So the view window would be around 200x160 pixels I think. That would leave room on one side and the bottom for info and icons. Need to charge some batteries to try some graphics on the GP2X screen (why didn't they make the DC socket bigger!?) but this looks about right roughed up on my monitor.

[erico]

If you need test I have a caanoo here too. But you can also test on a paint program, using the native target resolutions resolution to design a layout.
I remember the games you stated, they had a more graphic adventure approach to visuals. I also recall ISHAR on the amiga did a fabulous job on the tiled first person style, in and outdoors environment, specially ISHAR 3. I´m not sure about gp2x, but a caanoo is 320x240 and a pandora is 800x480. Probably 400x200 is a good target resolution to scale to both with little loss on the caanoo or gp23x sides. Pandora scaled 2x. 200x160 seems to fit fine into it then.

In my avocado game, which is to work on a caanoo/pandora/android, I ended up choosing a base resolution of 428x240, so to fit the many androids better, maybe it could be usefull to you too?

You seem to have choosen a bard´s tale approach to visuals. Matchy was also talking about other styles, like isometric filmation(last ninja/cadaver) etc.
One style I like a lot, is the ALIEN on the c64. It was room based like DM but it scrolled like a panoramic view.

In my case, I intended a bard´s tale look with smaller tiles, destructible environment and Y axis. Too big of a jump for my coding abilities yet.
So It´s better I start with a simple 2d GFX IF with pictures. 

Internally, such a game is pretty much grid based on an array like a Rogue like game. So maybe a simple rogue is a good start? 

EDIT: a link to a remake of the old msx/c64 alien into PC http://derbian.webs.com/lv-426/

[HamishTPB]

Yeah the entire GP2X line is 320x240 so the Wiz and Caanoo are the same.

My idea is also along the rogue-like idea with movement based on "squares" of movement to simplify a few things in the engine.

Actually the view area I mentioned doesn't need to be so limited on the hand-helds since there is no need for on-screen controls just information about stamina, current weapons etc. and the areas I thought about for movement controls would only be needed on the android version where there is more space anyway. Movement and most controls would be with the hardware controls on the GP2X/Wiz/Caanoo/Pandora. Working this out as I go along (lots of scribbles in my pad and terrible gimp artwork).

I need to spend €30 with Evil Dragon to get a new board for my bricked Caanoo and I am desperate to get an Open Pandora but money is tight at the moment. There is one at a decent price on eBay at the moment and I have no money

[HamishTPB]

Oh yeah - I remember seeing that Aliens game on a friends C64 (I was a Spectrum / Atari 8-bit person). 

[HamishTPB]

Another idea of the sort of view (but not necessarily the gameplay) I have in mind would be Xybots (Atari Lynx and others).

Edit: The reason I am talking about these games is that I have virtually no 3D experience so I am thinking of a sprite based engine but perhaps 3D is not too scary?

[erico]

Xybots was really good.

I think if you use the 3d only for the display, and keep the game internals into a 2d turn based stuff then all should be simple.
It is what I thought to show the dungeon´s GFX. It should also strike a huge economy into textures tiles as you can use the front one to texture sides.

Maybe start with flat cubes and fog to get a hang of it is a good idea.

[HamishTPB]

  I am a bit scared of 3D, pathetic I know! :-) But I imagine I can get my head around it if I give it a go and it would certainly make a better look to try what you suggest.

The more I think about the interface the more I come to the realisation that a more modern approach would be to have a HUD rather than a flick screen approach, pop-up inventory/spells/tech menus etc.

My brain is getting tired from thinking about this all day long

[spacefractal]

If design using 3d. Screen ratio is not really a issue as well any resolutions/scaling to fit it. It's more how 2d assest is using and how the interface was designed.

Also if design like hired guns, the screen might just got few pixels wider or move them few pixels more to side in their split screen. Resolution here is more important in the person view here.

I'm have seen a remake of the c64 aliens game under another name. But some time ago. Here the wider resolution would never been a issue.

my latest game was designed with 960x640 to 1280x720 in mind and used none scaling graphics, but might scroll between, if bigger/lesser it's uses scaling or uses retina version. But it's was a 2d game and did not fixed in one resolution.

[erico]

Yep, 3d could be a good start.
Probably by doing polygoon fill style like Cimeeon moon (or just cubes) would be great to get a perspective and number of blocks to get an idea of grid space.
Matchy? you around?

[matchy]

That is an interesting looking game and is what I was sort of imagining. Visually a better example than Dungeons Of Daggorath but I do wonder about an outdoor. Gruds In Space is also another favorite both in layout and story-task.

It would be nice to share ideas to form a game together but, more meaningfully, I think realistically that we break them up such as like the old mini-challenges so that we don't linger.

[mentalthink]

Hey Erico this game you put the image looks very nice, old but looks fantastic...

About make something in 3D, rally it's easy the great problem comes if you have animated charactes and complex animation (well if use 3D max don't too much problem the xporter did Vladimir runs like a charm in any version of 3ds max).

How says Erico begin with some boxes or makeing some Groups of tunels, like a mountage Kit can be good, a good point for runs in GPX well can be use a Windows , don't using the 320x240, and leave in "Black" the 2D part of the Screen for thext and 2D grapchis... and Using littles textures for far and " big" tectures for near I think this can works fine in a GPX... don't use light and litghting into the 3D suite, for use a light Map...

If you need some model, please comment me and I do a couple of tunnels if you need...

About speak RPG, really I don't have any idea, I never play to Zelda or some similar Game, bascially in CPC I think this game don't appears for my Machine....

Interesting thread , at least for my it's a good source of info about the RPG's...

[HamishTPB]

It is worth pointing out that my reason for wanting to make a Xenomorph / Dungeon Master style game is to create a native GP2X/Wiz/Caanoo/Pandora game, not to compete with something like Grimrock in the mainstream. It is likely that I will make a build for Android and Linux desktop as well since I use those but the main drive is to make a handheld RPG.

Edit: And the reason for thinking along the lines of creating not just a game but an engine is the hope that other people will give me something to play as well

[erico]

Question for network coders:

A quick thought about a hired guns multiplayer. Would it be possible to do it net play and hot seat?
Considering it is, what would be the chances of it being multiplayer amongst different devices?

I mean, on all desktops it would show 4 players, either local or networked, so you also see other people´s screens, but smaller devices would show only your own screen.

I was thinking to be worth to give a try on coding a quick game (where people could chip in) into the style, but I can only code for local players, no net skills.
Better thinking about the style, it would be easier to do it 3d, but run the the game on an array.

Just some thoughts.

[Slydog]

If anyone needs a random 3d multi-level maze generator algorithm, I can outline how I did the algorithm for my 3d maze game below.
My game isn't of the styles mentioned above, but the code could be used to generate random levels, if the game design could accommodate it.

The screenshot is from outside the level (in my game you only walk 'on' the maze', not 'in' the maze, I twiddled my code for this screenshot to generate square tube hallways instead of flat).

Now, imagine these square tubes being replaced by Erico's hexagonal hallways above.  As long as the 3d models align evenly at 'one world unit' intervals, the level should align properly.

I use 7 unique maze tile pieces to 'glue' together to display any maze combination.