Chaos: The Battle of Wizards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos:_The_Battle_of_Wizards) is a classic. There are a lot of remakes on the PC but nothing available for iOS. The Android version is OK but its so faithful to the original it includes many things that weren't great to begin with. Anyway, I've always wanted to play a newer Chaos game on mobile devices. I also expected there to be a version for iOS by now since various people have announced an ambition to do it, which has made me reluctant to do the same. Well, I'm done waiting. My next project is my own take on Chaos: The Battle of Wizards. Work has already started.
What I'm going to do: Keep the essential gameplay that made the original fun then add to it while removing some elements that weren't good. True network multiplayer will definitely be a feature, although an option to use the old hotseat multiplayer of the original is also planned.
What I'm not going to do: The look and feel of the original will be gone. In particular the UI is going to receive a major overhaul. Graphics will be 16-bit era or better. It won't be 3D
This version is going to kick ass. 8)
Wizards! :good: Good luck.
Is that game similar to Laser Squad? I had it on my Amiga 500, it was a superb game, and multiplayer was really good fun.
Great, I remember this one from CU AMIGA magazine, but I never got it.
Seems to be great fun to play! keep us posted! :good:
Chaos is similar to Laser Squad and by the same guy, Julian Gollop - a very talented guy.
Today I was working on player wizards. The original had several types and colours available. There were also special magical enhancements like amour, weapons, wings for flying and stuff like that. To allow for all that and more I am creating a system that 1) allows you to have great control over your wizard's appearance, and 2) allows for many changes to the main sprite's appearance to reflect their in-game enhancements. The possible combinations will be vast. Here is a small example:-
(http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac242/wheeethefibble/webpics/wizard-example.jpg)
The wizard on the left has the magical staff enhancement - something you'll be able to get during a battle if you're lucky. The wizard on the right has magical armour enhancement. I've only got one type of clothing so far. Many other types are coming.
I salute you, pixel wizard. :good:
Thanks! The trouble is I actually hate doing gfx. It can drive me up the wall. I much prefer the analytical problem solving of programming or the conceptual creativity of game design.
Since this game will involve a lot of animated creatures and similar stuff I was feeling worried about how I was going to cope. Luckily the girl who writes music for my games suggested she could help. She will illustrate and animate while I will pixelate the results. Below is a sprite of a wolf we produced last night over a couple of beers. I'm happy that with her help I'll get through the gfx much happier and quicker:-
(http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac242/wheeethefibble/webpics/wolfy.png)
Great! and the art is awesome!
While the image looks great, it looks more like a fox than a wolf, due to its colouring. Make it grey or blue and it might look more like a wolf.
(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs39/i/2009/002/c/f/wolf_cartoon_by_adiAdii.jpg)
It still looks great though :)
this is what I like when doing remake when whet commercial and its unofficial. Look like he is aware of all spikes around copyright and stuff, so its can been a nice take and inspiration from that game.
I have not played the game, but I do loved Laser Squard.
Anyway its the wolf can been threated like a fox, but lits it been a fox since its look pretty nice, hehe.
Yep the colors make it look like a fox, but I didn´t notice/bother when I first saw.
If you would allow me to express personal opinion, I think the final could do with less antialiase, and the wolf´s teeth could be placed closer to the right on the month instead of the left, like when dogs get angry/show teeth kind of stuff.
But this is not that important, the art already carries a style, that is difficult to pull out. congrats.
The amount of antialising was/is partly due to re-scaling. I've changed the sprite sizes to a max of 96 pixels width and max of 128 pixels height. That should help a little. Some devices will struggle with the gfx when zoomed far our but this is a turn-based game so occasional dips to 20-30FPS shouldn't cause strife.
We have greyified the direwolf:-
(http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac242/wheeethefibble/webpics/wolf_animated_small.gif)
I like this little guy:-
(http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac242/wheeethefibble/webpics/icegiant.png)
Everything I'm doing with this turn-based game should help my bigger project: a real-time mixed-genre game with lots of robots in a fully mechanised world. The gfx for the bigger project will need to be very good. I'm hoping to find a vector artist who is good at drawing cartoon robots in a Megaman style.
That wolf looks so much better now - the animation is top notch too :)
I wish I would be 5% of such an artist. :nw:
Just curious. How is this one going?
Slowly but well. Thanks for asking. :)
In order to speed up development in later stages I created a complex debugging mode that allows me to see the internal workings of my app by flipping through different screens of information. It also allows me to alter global settings like screen resolution & texture detail, force state shifts, force errors and edit game related data like map, character and object data on the fly. My approach to coding is very modular this time too.
The same basic engine I'm creating is also being used for Robot Ninja Assassin, another game I'm working on that is real-time rather than turn based. Robot Ninja Assassin has taken priority for the moment because its a more marketable game and my artist/musician partner is excited about the steampunk setting.
robot ninja assassin? on a steam punk environment?
I WANNA SEE IT NOW! NOW NOW NOW! :)
ps: show a pic pretty pliiiisi.... ;/
Oh, well I will announce it soon then! Would have to post concept art though since screenshots right now would suspiciously resemble Minicraft.
hehe ok, but I´m really curious, theme is great.
Don´t forget a steampunk zombie here and there.
Quote from: Wampus on 2012-Feb-27
Slowly but well. Thanks for asking. :)
In order to speed up development in later stages I created a complex debugging mode that allows me to see the internal workings of my app by flipping through different screens of information. It also allows me to alter global settings like screen resolution & texture detail, force state shifts, force errors and edit game related data like map, character and object data on the fly. My approach to coding is very modular this time too.
The same basic engine I'm creating is also being used for Robot Ninja Assassin, another game I'm working on that is real-time rather than turn based. Robot Ninja Assassin has taken priority for the moment because its a more marketable game and my artist/musician partner is excited about the steampunk setting.
:) Alright. Good to hear.
Will be working for the next few days on the alpha of this game. Lots of progress but still lots to do!
(http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac242/wheeethefibble/webpics/SampleSheet.jpg)
The bad news for people wanting a remake of the original is the chance of spells failing has been dropped and with it creature illusions too. I felt it was potentially too frustrating for modern gamers and was dropped from the official sequels for a reason. Instead a mana level will be used instead, with more powerful spells using up more mana.
The first alpha should feature 18 creatures, many of the classic spells plus a few new ones and a basic scenery tile set. The way the game is structured should make it easy to make regular content updates. We're aiming for 27 basic creatures for Beta release with more coming if the game takes off.
AI may have been started by first alpha but could be fairly basic, i.e. either stupidly ignorant or far too effective.
Story mode and network multiplayer won't be ready for first alpha since they will be paid version only. However, the whole thing is being built with story mode and network multiplayer in mind, so expect them. Story mode will use a procedurally created world with a narrative AI to keep it fresh each time. Multiplayer mode will offer many options for fighting, e.g. fog-of-war, teams and resource management.
EDIT: If you can think of any wizard names that aren't going to lead to legal threats or trouble with apple for bad language let me know and I'll add them to the list of randomly selected names for computer opponents.
I particularly like that tree in the left bottom corner. :good:
Changed the title of this thread to more represent what I'm posting to it. :) Progress made but still nothing playable yet. Its slow going because I'm putting in a lot of effort to make everything easy to modify later, to speed up the slower later stages of development. For example, all the tiles, objects, creatures and spells have their own folders which contain INI files describing the attributes, animations and sounds used. To change or add something new I need only to modify or create a new folder and the content gets picked up by the game.
The main playing area can be moved around quickly with the finger, zoomed in or out by pinching the screen and selections made with a single tap. If you zoom far out the textures are swapped out for smaller ones to keep performance good.
The game design for story mode has me excited. I think it will extend the life of the game a great deal.
As always the progress on the basic set of alpha creature list is ongoing:-
(http://i.imgur.com/lZvQ7.jpg)
Hopefully by the end of next week I'll have the map, objects and sprites all working together, a basic UI and something looking more like a game than boring looking engine testing screens like this:-
(http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac242/wheeethefibble/webpics/mapping.jpg)
NICE, NICE PIxel art... AESOOOOMIIIING!!!, I want play yet to your game finished!!! :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :booze: :booze:
Those sprites look fantastic. With the exception of one.
The humanoid skeleton has too many bones in the upper arm and upper leg - there should only be one (in each) and the pelvis is too small (sorry - I've been in nursing too long - it just seems so wrong! :P)
See here -
(http://www.lessontutor.com/skeleton_blank9.gif)
Other than that, keep up the jolly good work =D
Gah! Drat those pesky earthlings and their unnatural bone structure.
@mentalthink soon, soon. :)
Quote from: Ian Price on 2012-Apr-08
Those sprites look fantastic. With the exception of one.
The humanoid skeleton has too many bones in the upper arm and upper leg - there should only be one (in each) and the pelvis is too small (sorry - I've been in nursing too long - it just seems so wrong! :P)
Other than that, keep up the jolly good work =D
I'll bet you're going to tell me horses don't have wings next!
QuoteI'll bet you're going to tell me horses don't have wings next!
Of course they do. Just the ones we see generally are deformed - they are also lacking their single horns. :P
Better?
(http://i.imgur.com/hBjJD.gif)
Much :)
And animated too - nice =D
See it was worth mentioning it!
At first I didn´t even noticed.
Later, when I noticed, I ended up liking it´s non-human-anatomic design, somehow it reminded me of those plastic skeletons that glowed on the dark when I was a kid.
The new one looks great, if I look at it with "reality" eyes, still, the older has a charm for me exactly for being the way it is, and first you spot the non-standard bones, it keeps attracting me to it.
At the end I guess artists have the freedom to portrait stuff whatever way they see fit. There are a lot of non-correct anatomy on characters on the many games/art style around and sometimes it is exactly this take makes it so appealing.
I understand Ian´s point as in my head, it is harder to see a human skeletons in games not have at least most correct bones related to reality. Maybe it is just my 8-bit mind and too much ghost and goblins + golden axe. I do agree with Ian though that the last one looks better, but I also like the other too for the reason I just said.
Nobble #4 and the scary tree are the greatest for me, immediate attention catch.
I see the sprites have a thick black outline. It sure brings a tatoo feel to it to me :good:
Do you have mock of the sprites over background? I would love to see that!
Keep it up people! :)
I also work in nursing, so bones and anatomy are part and parcel of my job. I can accept fantasy figures without problem (in fact, if the skeleton had had four arms or horns or a long neck or anything else it would have been fine). But it was too humanoid and I've seen too many Ray Harryhausen films to ignore it ;)
(http://christopherbahn.com/wpmu/files/2006/03/ray_harryhausen.jpg)
:)
Sooo great to see a picture of THE MASTER!
So that was the guy behind the Clash of the Titans animation, eh? I still remember some scenes from that very clearly. The skeletons, for example. I knew the old skeleton anim for Chaos Remake was odd somehow. Strange that I didn't realise why. ::)
Our house got struck by lightning and we had no internet for a while. Else I would have posted another screenshot. You can't see it in a static screen but all these creatures are animated: -
(http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac242/wheeethefibble/webpics/creatures.jpg)
- Mipmapping now working on creatures, objects, tiles and fonts. Everything is scaling well, or, well enough that I will accept.
- Basic game font now displaying in four colours. Very simple font but readable in even very low resolutions like 320x240.
- Fire, gooey blob now finished. Several more objects for the alpha need to be done and then the custom tileset will be created.
- Fog of war, field of vision and line of sight all ready to use. Working well with gradated levels of light and is very fast to calculate. A big improvement on my previous only partially successful attempt at such things. (http://www.glbasic.com/forum/index.php?topic=5420.0)
- Packet preparation as part of Multiplayer is partially implemented.
Another update next week. Hopefully won't be struck by lightning for a while now. ;/
It is said these things don´t hit same place twice :P (although I know of few cases it did).
Pic looks great, they look all nice on the playfield!
Bring more!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d7OBluielc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d7OBluielc)
Thor has now blessed your game.
(Good to see first in-game screenshot).
Is it done yet?
No :( and I'm too busy to do much more with it now until next month, which is National Game Development Month. Starting hopefully around the 28th of May through to the end of June I'm going to have a crazy dev marathon. Everything I can lock down that doesn't need doing I will lock down so I can focus as much as I can on getting Chaos completed. I'm also going to get out an update every day to my dev blog during that time, even if its just a report of why nothing much was done that day.
What I can report is that the old wizard design has been ditched. Even for the alpha version the wizards looked too out of place in comparison with others sprites. Now the wizards and their clothing/accessories are all hand drawn. I'm also testing the rudimentary stages of the single player enemy AI. I'm using a threat vs reward matrix for the map in combination with A* pathfinding. There is a problem with getting stuck around bottlenecks like doors but I've read of a solution that will probably result in overall better AI. Basically, if a creature can't find its way forward because another friendly creature is in the way then it can do several things. Firstly it will go to the back of the turn queue and try again later. This way the creature in the way will have had a chance to move on. If there is still no way forward then the creature can wait once more, if creatures that still need to move is high, or an alternative route / course of action is chosen based on a priority system.
Ok, just got a message that Julian Gollop, the creator of the original Chaos, has started work on a Chaos remake of his own. Read about it here (http://www.rotates.org/2012/11/02/julian-gollop-has-an-announcement-to-make/).
He says it will take a year or so to be ready. So, I'd better get my little tribute game finished before then or it will be eclipsed for sure. :doubt:
Chaos Rematch is now a pretty damn high priority.
BTW finished an on-screen keyboard lately. Works on all platforms including desktops. Flips up when needed.
(http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac242/wheeethefibble/webpics/chaoskeyscreen.png)
Created a particle engine for the game during the weekend. The editor needs some tweaking and I need to get frugal with the number of particles so as not to put too much of a strain on slower devices. Even still, I'm pleased with the results. With practise I'll get artful at creating some real nice effects. Although you really have to see them in action to appreciate them here are some static screenshots I took:-
Wolf receiving protective shield spell
(http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac242/wheeethefibble/webpics/magic3.jpg)
A knight about to be hit with a ball of magic
(http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac242/wheeethefibble/webpics/magic4.jpg)
Vampire engulfed in fire
(http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac242/wheeethefibble/webpics/magic2.jpg)
Phoenix in a cloud of blue haze
(http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac242/wheeethefibble/webpics/magic1.jpg)
The particle engine is now nicely optimised and working in my game's debug mode. This is helpful since it means I can edit and save particle effects directly from within the game. Should cut down time needing to move from the editor to the game to see if things look nice. Screenshots of debug mode showing the particle editor screen:-
(http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac242/wheeethefibble/webpics/debugparticle.jpg)
This weekend I want to add spells and information panels to the in-game GUI. My current idea is that spells can be displayed on the left of the screen, can be scrolled up and down with click & drag and information panels about spells, creatures and other things can pop up on the right. When a creature is selected I want the screen to smoothly auto-center on the creature and pop back again when the info panel is closed. Hmm. Actually maybe that's not such a good idea. Will have to try it and see. Here's my concept so far:-
(http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac242/wheeethefibble/webpics/panelsandspells.jpg)
My whole aim with this thing is to keep the GUI smooth and easy to use on touchscreen devices as well as PCs, make it scale well on almost any resolution from 480x320 to ultra-high and try to insure everything is as intuitive as possible to play with. So many turn-based games have awkward UIs. That is something I'm being careful to avoid. In fact, much of the hard work has gone into that. The mechanics of the gameplay are almost simple compared to what has to be involved in the UI. :S
I did a performance check last night. Even with excessive particles the game is nicely responsive on my Nook Color. Should work fine on current devices with no problem.
Nice to see the progress you've made so far. Give us a youtube with the particle effects in action if you feel like it. ;)
Quote from: r0ber7 on 2012-Nov-08
Nice to see the progress you've made so far. Give us a youtube with the particle effects in action if you feel like it. ;)
I am bound to get around to uploading some vids. Got a lot of stuff to demonstrate. Not just Chaos Rematch. If nothing happens soon then at the beginning of December there is a short 'story so far' video presentation planned. Looking forward to that. It may become a kind of practise run for something later. You see, if the (singleplayer / multiplayer match only) alpha version turns out to play well enough I/we are thinking about going to Kickstarter or Indiegogo for potential funding. We wouldn't need much. Covering the costs of drawing and animating the characters to make use of Spriter is what we are wondering about. It would allow many more gameplay possibilities and visual improvements. Adding many kinds of weapons, armor, power-ups, etc. to smoothly animated and configurable creatures and wizards would be wonderful. In fact, if crowd funding happened the final game might end up more like a Lords of Chaos tribute than a tribute to the original Chaos its intended to be. The possibilities are latent in the code already.
Nice advancements!
vids vids tube tube :whip: :P
:nw: :whip:
Ok, I'll organise something soon. There is still so much to be done before it looks presentable is all. I won't be able to work on the core game mechanics until after Christmas because there is so much to do before then. Check out my projected schedule, which may be optimistic:-
Week 1 - Nov 12 to 17
Spell & general icon control. Information panel for right side of screen. UI stuff in general.
Week 2 - Nov 19 to 24
Map editor to handle tiles and objects in debug mode. Line of Sight and Pathfinding code finalized.
Week 3 - Nov 26 to Dec 1
Multiplayer LAN networking. Handle dropped connections, data loss, etc. Testing for all devices.
Week 4 - Dec 3 to 8
Wizard and Creature editor. Start to work out combat balance.
Week 5 - Dec 10 to 15
Combat and spell dynamics. Game starts to be somewhat playable, i.e. controllable.
Week 6 - Dec 17 to 22
Review progress so far. Fix bugs, quash niggles and tidy up code.
In the new year the big stuff can start to happen; Nice game menus and navigation, computer AI (big deal!), spell powers added one by one, multiplayer working, single player working, etc. That's just for alpha. I'd love to work on a single player campaign mode, if reality allows.
I should make a schedule like that! I used to do that, but lately I've just been winging it, adding stuff here and there without any clear focus. You inspired me, sir. Also, good luck with the Kickstarter, if it happens. =D
I'm going to make this my One Game a Month (http://www.onegameamonth.com/) project for March. That schedule I wrote up went out the window. No progress on this for ages. So, to drive myself insane I'm going to force things by trying to get something playable out by the end of March / very early April. The release will be focused on core game mechanics, so a milestone release only. Still, at least its something...
That can be a great push!
Let us know if you do set up some kind of blog there so I can cheer you up! :good:
Quote from: Wampus on 2013-Mar-05
I'm going to make this my One Game a Month (http://www.onegameamonth.com/) project for March. That schedule I wrote up went out the window. No progress on this for ages. So, to drive myself insane I'm going to force things by trying to get something playable out by the end of March / very early April. The release will be focused on core game mechanics, so a milestone release only. Still, at least its something...
Good luck! I know the feeling...
Erico I do have a blog related to this game. I started it in November, did almost nothing with it since, then started again because of doing this game this month. Here is the link to Chaos Rematch dev blog (http://www.livingmidnight.com/chaosdevblog/). Any kind of comment on what I'm doing this month would be appreciated. Stops me feeling like a total hermit. Hah.
Quote from: r0ber7 on 2013-Mar-06
Good luck! I know the feeling...
Maybe that's normal with larger game projects like your (fantastic) game. Working alone there is so much to do. It can feel endless.
I often have a daydream where I imagine being able to repeat the same day over and over with nothing changing except whatever game I'm working on, so I'd actually have the time to start and finish the kind of projects I'd love to do, plus learn any new technologies I'd need to do them.
I was watching the video there...heck, I never cease to be amazed at the things you did there!
I´m marveled at the line-of-sight part. :good:
Quote from: erico on 2013-Mar-06video
Wait what, video?
*checks*
Nice. Liking the music as well. And, err, Darwin looks a bit creepy. :D
Quote from: erico on 2013-Mar-06
I was watching the video there (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBtgXYrCpBc)...
Wow, the 3D isometric part in the video looks really cool! You could do a game with just that isometric engine. :good: Like a Marble Madness type game, or Snake Rattle 'n' Roll or Kablooey/Bombing Islands etc.
OK, so I've been thinking. I've let this project go into stasis for long enough. I think its time to get it done and let it go.
Part of what has been keeping me from progressing is I've built all these nice little routines for the game, i.e. particle engine, field of vision, scaling for any device with texture remapping, multiplayer, etc. However, I haven't got the basic gameplay worked out - how the thing will work - and doing that using the framework I've built would be a little slow. It adds a layer of complexity that has to be dealt with at every step. This is my solution to quick development: I'll build a prototype of the game for PC, concentrating on just the gameplay mechanics. I'll keep very simple graphics. Real simple. No fancy animation as such, no audio wizardry, etc. That way I can work out how the core game will work first - the creature stats, AI and menu system - tweaking it to sure its fun for single player / multi player. After that has been done, well then that's the time to put it into the framework I've built for the final thing. At least I'll know the game itself works then, before I make it pretty.
Feel like I'll finally make some real steps towards getting this available.
As long as it sees the light of day it doesn't matter about niceties for now. They can always be added later ;)
Wow!
Look super!!!
I used to play all of Gallops games...up until LSN (laser squad nemesis) lost its server and community died away i was a avid fan of the game...Looking forward to this remake!
And that particle engine stuff! holy smoke batman!
Laser Squad Nemesis was a lot of fun. Played quite a bit of that back in the day.
Incidentally the control scheme for Chaos Mages (previously, Chaos Rematch) will be a bit like the recent XCOM games.
Although I want to keep it simple I think I have to build even the basic prototype with multiplayer working from the outset. Adding it later will be much harder otherwise.
What was your tag in LSN ?
I blew u up a few times!
Hahaha no doubt. I got blew up a lot of times. :-[ It was Ragaril, Wampus or Fibble. I can't remember which one but those are the usual tags I go by.
Which reminds me...An email to email game services exists at the moment for it - I need to sign up for few games ....
I'm finding this is going to be slow going no matter what. Why? Because if I want to include multiplayer it kind of has to be working as multiplayer from the outset, even for a simplistic prototype before its made to look and sound pretty. I don't want to try to tag on multiplayer later after the single player experience is working since it would be much easier to build the whole thing around multiplayer early on.
Another challenge is the AI. I lost sleep over thinking about this last night. In the morning I realised my ideas were just too big to code efficiently. There is almost no end to the complexities you can add to AI for a turn-based strategy game like this. The trouble is I don't want to spend forever making the AI. I'll have to settle for good enough. By that I mean it has to do a decent job of providing a challenge and NOT have glaring AI problems that look like bugs.
It's at times like this you need to decide to fish or cut bait. Either continue and work your way through the problems or just knock it on the head before you waste more time on it.
With a new version of Chaos coming soon from the original creator, perhaps it's time to say that you've had fun, learned a lot and move onto something else. You can always revisit the game later on - the work that you've done already will still be there. Maybe coming back to it later, with fresh eyes, fresh ideas and a clear understanding of the difficulties might help.
Oh, its nowhere near time to let it go yet in my estimation. I've only just got back on track! I need to adjust my expectations is all. I was hoping to get a prototype working by 19th December. Might be longer now. Tackling multiplayer today, when I get a chance. I had something partially working before but I discovered some bugs with the NET commands (http://www.glbasic.com/forum/index.php?topic=8778.0) which basically made all my work with them up to that point worthless since my ability to host games properly was made practically impossible. I had to 'cut bait' with multiplayer at that point. Going to revisit the problem to see if the bugs are still present. If not I can speed this process up immensely. If so, I'll have to write code to host a server myself.
BTW the new game by Gollop is PC, Mac and Linux only. Also I'm sure it'll be very good but it will be considerably different to my game.
QuoteBTW the new game by Gollop is PC, Mac and Linux only
For now...
Yeah, I am intimidated by the fact this new Chaos game is being developed. Since its being created in Unity there might be a mobile version of Gollop's new game in the future too. The thing is, when I reflect on this, I can't imagine a realistic scenario where his re-boot of Chaos is to the detriment of what I'm doing. If I like a game I look for more of the same. That is a trend that works in gaming. Chances are there is a smallish number of people who care enough about the original Chaos to look for a re-boot. If 'Chaos Reborn' does well, that would actually be better for my game overall. The re-boot of XCOM was a big hit with me and that didn't diminish my interested in XCOM-like games.
Another thing I'm glad about is that the original Chaos is in the public domain, thanks to Gollop being such a decent bloke, so I doubt I'd have to deal with legal repercussions from any of this.
Tonight I've gotten a bit of a boost. It looks like the multiplayer problem I encountered before can be bypassed. I found I was calling a SOCK_SHUTDOWN command before NETDESTROYPLAYER and NETSHUTDOWN. This resulted in just one reply coming from NETGETQUITPLAYER where I needed two - one for the NET commands and (for reasons I don't understand and aren't documented) a ghost player that seems to be created if you use UDP sockets for broadcasting on LAN (or whatever you need it for) as well as NET commands for communicating with the server. It seems the NET commands create player IDs for more than just NET sockets. I won't bore people with the ins and outs of it, but I will update the thread reporting an error if I find something other people might need to know.