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Author Topic: Camera and Polyvector  (Read 16396 times)

Offline Kyo

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Re: Camera and Polyvector
« Reply #45 on: 2014-May-22 »
kanonet, it's possible to adapt your libsprite to my needs? 
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Offline kanonet

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Re: Camera and Polyvector
« Reply #46 on: 2014-May-22 »
I think I did understand your needs now - but I would not do it with 3D commands. I think all that you want to do can easily be done with 2D commands, and they will better fit your needs. IIRC there was side scrolling tutorial somewhere in the forum, this could show you what you need to know. I would encapsulate everything in some extended types with some helper functions, so you only do the job once, and adding new items or enemies means almost no additional work. A good engine is a great help!
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Offline erico

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Re: Camera and Polyvector
« Reply #47 on: 2014-May-22 »
If you are looking at zooms like art of fighting, can be done with the 2d commands finelly.
The hotspot could be programmed too.

Offline Kyo

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Re: Camera and Polyvector
« Reply #48 on: 2014-May-22 »
I think I did understand your needs now - but I would not do it with 3D commands. I think all that you want to do can easily be done with 2D commands, and they will better fit your needs. IIRC there was side scrolling tutorial somewhere in the forum, this could show you what you need to know. I would encapsulate everything in some extended types with some helper functions, so you only do the job once, and adding new items or enemies means almost no additional work. A good engine is a great help!

I don't need to use IIRC, I've created a complete (complex) game with GLB (and Polyvector)!
A beat em'up with: multi parallax (2 rear, 1 front and 1 where the player walks), Tile manager, management of enemies with complex animations and status changes (ready_stance, Walk, Run, etc. the characters have up to 25 animations), special effects, particles, music, sfx etc. ...

I have created an editor that handles:
1) Characters: animation, collision zones, pivot for position, pivot for effects, etc.
2) Stages: Tile Editor, zone collision , placestatic and dynamic objects, etc. ..
3) Particles

It work fine (and speed) on android e ios ....
And for this I know the limits of GL_Basic (in 2D) ....

But for my next game, I need a few features!

If you are looking at zooms like art of fighting, can be done with the 2d commands finelly.
The hotspot could be programmed too.

Art of fighting it's old school, Today no one would use a system of 2D sprites to make a HD Fighting Game (see: Skullgirl, BeastFury, KOF XIII, Chain Saw, etc ...)

For peoples who use GL_Basic for the first time, thanks to the Basic language is really easy to use, but in the long time, miss a lot of features that make it competitive with current 2D engine!

I start to use GL_B 5 years ago, and in 5 years, has had a small minor changes and the addition of HTML 5 (which I did not understand if it works and if someone is using it)  but GL_B has always remained the same ...

This is the reason why in this Forum write only a dozen of people??? (maybe less)

I do not want to polemic, but I want to make games, not demos techniques or use it as a hobby.

Offline erico

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Re: Camera and Polyvector
« Reply #49 on: 2014-May-22 »
I see, there isen´t much I can help you with.
By what you have done you are certainly a better coder then me.

Some revamp on 2d and sound on GLB would come nice, last I recall there was SDL changes coming where I hope it will address your needs (and mine to).

Offline Kyo

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Re: Camera and Polyvector
« Reply #50 on: 2014-May-22 »
I don't know if there will be changes (additions, improvements, bug fixes, see the audio on android etc) in a short time GL_B, but I'm considering other possibilities for my next game.

I tested Unity (I know C #) and for certain things is easy (see the management of the sprite and pivot) but I don't love the Animator system.

The system of scripts is cool, but I prefer to do the code from the beginning!


Offline Slydog

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Re: Camera and Polyvector
« Reply #51 on: 2014-May-22 »
I quickly reread this thread to get an idea of your problem.  But I still don't get what you are asking.
Why can't you use 3D quads (using perhaps a custom 3d sprite library to handle the low level details)?
They scale and pan with the camera.  They can be any size, any proportion, flipped, coloured, z-ordered, etc.

But then you said you wouldn't use a 2D system for a fighting game (and I agree!).
You'd have to have a sprite for every possible 'pose' for every action for every character.
In 3D, you could use a 3d model character with pre-wired animations embedded to call / activate by name ("walk", "jump", etc).
You would do all your animations inside your modelling app, or a specialized model animation app.  Or buy your animations ready to use.
You could set the camera to orthographic projection to make it look 2D.

Can GLBasic play embedded 3d model animations?
This is fairly easy using Unity (in 3D mode, using an orthographic camera perhaps).
I've never used Unity's animation system myself, so have nothing to add there.

And I also like to code from the beginning.  In Unity, I wrote wrappers for all my UI code (using Daikon Forge's UI library as a base).  I have methods to generate my UI on the fly using commands like UI.AddButton("name", x, y, w, h, etc).  My scene hierarchy is fairly blank as most of my objects are created / initialized in code.  I converted my 3d maze game to Unity in about 2 weeks.  I was running into GLBasic language limitations (I need my OOP!) and 3d graphics commands were too low level (and still missing features without working directly with OpenGL code which is an option).  And GLBasic was still only using OpenGL 1.1 (or maybe only OpenGLES 1.1 was limited?).  Plus no built-in physics (for future games!).  Unity did have a bigger learning curve.  Ha, I'm still learning.
My current project (WIP) :: TwistedMaze <<  [Updated: 2015-11-25]

Offline erico

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Re: Camera and Polyvector
« Reply #52 on: 2014-May-23 »
I quickly reread this thread to get an idea of your problem.  But I still don't get what you are asking.
Why can't you use 3D quads (using perhaps a custom 3d sprite library to handle the low level details)?
They scale and pan with the camera.  They can be any size, any proportion, flipped, coloured, z-ordered, etc.
...

I kind of don´t get either. It seems you are asking for features without showing what you are using it for. So without prior understandment of what you have, it becomes difficult to understand the problem. I agree with what Slydog stated as I seem to understand as he did.

Quote
But then you said you wouldn't use a 2D system for a fighting game (and I agree!).

This, of course, I fully disagree. :rant: ;)

Offline erico

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Re: Camera and Polyvector
« Reply #53 on: 2014-May-23 »
...
This is the reason why in this Forum write only a dozen of people??? (maybe less)
I do not want to polemic, but I want to make games, not demos techniques or use it as a hobby.

Quality and quantity does not come on the same package. :P :D

Offline Slydog

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Re: Camera and Polyvector
« Reply #54 on: 2014-May-23 »
Quote
But then you said you wouldn't use a 2D system for a fighting game (and I agree!).
This, of course, I fully disagree. :rant: ;)

Ha, forgot which forum I was in!  Please don't kick me out!  :giveup:  Ok, using 2D sprites is the 'traditional' method, old school, and fairly 'simple' programming wise.  (Well, both kinda are, depends on what you find 'difficult'.)

But, I'm no artist.  I can't imagine drawing/animating soooo many sprites and keeping them organized!  And for all movement combinations, and perhaps movement transitions (flying kick, plus then a downward punch half way through!).  With a 3d model this is all done for you, and you can very easily blend animations (while walking, have the upper body rotate left then look up, without missing a step). 

But, as I said I'm not an artist, and I would still need one to create my character model with all those built-in animations.  Actually, it would be a great way to generate a bunch of 2d animation sprites, use 3d for the posing, then 'snap' pictures in sequence to record the movement.  Then you have a sprite sheet ready to use. 

But, gotta give credit to anybody doing it the 2d spritesheet method.  I remember animating a simple 16x16 C64 sprite of a guy walking left-right. At that moment, I realized I should stick to programming!

[Edit]  Does it ever get quiet here when Europe logs off!  All the discussion is over before I wake up!  Or it just seems. :bed:
« Last Edit: 2014-May-23 by Slydog »
My current project (WIP) :: TwistedMaze <<  [Updated: 2015-11-25]

Offline erico

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Re: Camera and Polyvector
« Reply #55 on: 2014-May-23 »
A fighting game MUST be 2d on my books ;)

Using 3d to help generate the 2d sprites is a great technik, you get to see it on KOF XIII, where the base of everything is 3d and then they got artists to pixel work over it.
Brilliant results! Altough I would have skipped the transparencies, I don´t like it either.

One good thing about using 3d, is that you can record a movement in video, track in 3d, and export the needed frames, saves some time. :good:

... [Edit]  Does it ever get quiet here when Europe logs off!  All the discussion is over before I wake up!  Or it just seems. :bed:

Feels the same way here ;)

Offline Kyo

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Re: Camera and Polyvector
« Reply #56 on: 2014-May-23 »
When I said, now you do not make more fight game with 2D sprites, I did not mean 2D fight game, but I was referring to the system of management of sprites.

Today everyone uses quadmesh (as I wrote, see: KOF XII and XIII Skull GIrl etc ...) they use sprites rendered from 3D models retouched with Photoshop.

...
This is the reason why in this Forum write only a dozen of people??? (maybe less)
I do not want to polemic, but I want to make games, not demos techniques or use it as a hobby.

Quality and quantity does not come on the same package. :P :D

In 2 years if GL_B remains so, also the few quality peoples disappear! ;)

Offline kanonet

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Re: Camera and Polyvector
« Reply #57 on: 2014-May-23 »
And why do you think this can not be done with GLBasic? Then 2D Commands are powerful and you can easily do exactly this. But this has be said before...
E.g. have a look at Karma Miwa, many of the figures have been created in 3D and transformed into sprites, its working nice and looking good!

Of cause creating those meshs is a very big work, especially for a fighting game, but this has nothing to do with the programming language, you do this in external tools, like 3D modellers and graphic programs, but once created its easy to use them in GLBasic and create your game.
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Offline Kyo

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Re: Camera and Polyvector
« Reply #58 on: 2014-May-23 »
I know how to make a 2D game in prerendering ... I'm telling of the features of Engine.

Use Polyvector for a 2D fighting game, not as good as use QuadMesh!

Today, even the shoot'em up, platform, etc., are made with quadmesh.

The total absence of Tools in GL_B, does not make it commercial, but it's not a problem for me!

Surely the problems of GL_B (see the various audio problems on Android, etc), I can not solve them!

If I buy an engine is because I believe in its future development.

But if I have to add features (other exporter platform, etc), fix BUG (audio, etc) or for have certain features I have to use external wrapper, I do before to buy another engine!
 
I'm wrong?

Offline erico

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Re: Camera and Polyvector
« Reply #59 on: 2014-May-23 »
No, you are not wrong.

But why can´t you do just that in GLB with 3d? That is what I´m not getting.
Create 3d rectangular flat objects and map your sprite to it, wouldn´t it solve the issues with z?