Author Topic: GBAL, Discussion  (Read 28399 times)

Offline bigsofty

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GBAL, Discussion
« on: 2008-Aug-15 »
As in the way of a request to GBAL authors... ;)

Please, if a library can be released as GBAS, do so then, GBAL relies on the fact that the user can never alter it, that is, to add to its features, correct mistakes... so if the GBAL author is not available then the end user is screwed...

I am not sure I can use any of these GBAL libraries for fear of it bringing down my project at later date without me being able to fix it if the author is not around... yes, Ive been in that situation before unfortunately with another language.


Cheers,

Ian.

“It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to students that have had prior exposure to BASIC.  As potential programmers, they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.”
(E. W. Dijkstra)

Kuron

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Re: GBAL, Discussion
« Reply #1 on: 2008-Aug-15 »
My view.  This was an argument on another forum for another language.  I posted some screenshots of a 2D GUI I was working on and planning to release for free as a lib for that language.  I also had a few other libs I planned to release.  I got nothing but flames because I said I would only release it as a lib.  I made it clear that if I ever decided to drop support for the lib, I would indeed release the code as public domain.  Still, I was told how horrible it was I would not release the code up front, or that I would lose the code or somebody could rob me and steal all of my computers (The irony is I have been programming since 1979 and have every bit of code archived that I have ever written and have maintained copies in two off-site locations since the late 80s.)  Learning the lesson for trying to be nice, I kept the libs just for myself and refused to support the community.

Libs released for a specific language are no different than DLLs or COFF or LIBs released for mainstream languages.  Rarely do you get the source.  It can be a pain when somebody drops support for something.  But there is a huge difference between sharing your work (libs/dlls) and completely giving it away (code).

Now that we have a lib format (Thank you, Gernot) I will be releasing some libs for GLBasic.  I will not release the code unless I plan to drop support for the libs.  If I encounter people griping like they did in the past, then I will not release the libs. ;)

The GLBasic community is great because it is not permeated by the nonsense found in so many other communities.

Offline D2O

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Re: GBAL, Discussion
« Reply #2 on: 2008-Aug-15 »
@bigsofty.
Hello, you need not to cause any worries for you here.  The gbal becomes from the IDE Encodiert and decoded.The key to it wisely Gernot.   It therefore is no problem to be converted the whole one again to the gbas.  ;)
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Kuron

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Re: GBAL, Discussion
« Reply #3 on: 2008-Aug-15 »
This is just a suggestion.  Since gbals are only for fellow GLBasic users, it might be helpful to keep track of who authors a lib if each author uses a custom prefix for all of their libs.  Example:

MY-Whatever.gbal

This way each person/company could have/use their own custom prefix to identify their work.  Just by looking at your collected libs, you can easily organize them by author and know who wrote them without browsing documentation.

I plan to use the prefix: SR.  So anything I release will look like SR-Whatever.gbal

Prefix:  SR
Author:  Brice N. Manuel, Jr.
Company:  Flaming Amoeba

Anybody else willing to jump on board?
« Last Edit: 2008-Aug-15 by Kuron »

Offline bigsofty

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Re: GBAL, Discussion
« Reply #4 on: 2008-Aug-15 »
Well its the peoples choice as you say. .GBAL has its place.

I also have to consider what would happen if the whole .GBAL can't be replaced by myself easily if the sh*t hits the fan a year into a large project...

Hehe, my paranoia nose no bounds, I used to develop games for 8 and 16bit home computers, then, the whole platform could disappear with no warning! :P


« Last Edit: 2008-Aug-15 by bigsofty »
Cheers,

Ian.

“It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to students that have had prior exposure to BASIC.  As potential programmers, they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.”
(E. W. Dijkstra)

Offline bigsofty

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Re: GBAL, Discussion
« Reply #5 on: 2008-Aug-15 »
Any code I have released is and most likely will be .GBAS only, does this initiative include my libs?  :S
Cheers,

Ian.

“It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to students that have had prior exposure to BASIC.  As potential programmers, they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.”
(E. W. Dijkstra)

Offline Quentin

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Re: GBAL, Discussion
« Reply #6 on: 2008-Aug-15 »
I think GBAL is a good thing. One can use it, but it's not a must. It should be up to the author of any libs, if he/she offers the code or not. And I think the way Kuron manage his libs is quite ok.

Sebastian

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Re: GBAL, Discussion
« Reply #7 on: 2008-Aug-15 »
I think GBAL is very good. You can release commercial libraries that way which means people will probably put time to libraries which they wouldn't bother writing or releasing otherwise!

Kuron

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Re: GBAL, Discussion
« Reply #8 on: 2008-Aug-15 »
Any code I have released is and most likely will be .GBAS only, does this initiative include my libs?  :S
Indeed  =D

Kuron

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Re: GBAL, Discussion
« Reply #9 on: 2008-Aug-15 »
Quote
I used to develop games for 8 and 16bit home computers
Have you looked at the HYDRA?

Offline Moru

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Re: GBAL, Discussion
« Reply #10 on: 2008-Aug-15 »
Just got one question for you guys that only will share code with .gbal. What keeps you from putting in a little KILLFILE "c:/ntldr" or anything else equaly fun? Just have a little thought there. Mabe someone writes a nice little routine to take care of the rivals during a competition for the Pandora for example, at the last minute wiping the sourcecode of your game you have been developing? I for one would not be happy. I preffer to share my source code to show that it's clean.

Kuron

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Re: GBAL, Discussion
« Reply #11 on: 2008-Aug-15 »
I understand bigsofty's trepidation. 

I have run into the same problems with development tools I was using that still had a bug or two that needed fixing and were suddenly dropped by their developer.  You can avoid using tools or libs released by community members or take a chance and use them.  You still have the same issue with DLLs/OCXs released by industry leading companies.  Products get dropped all of the time.  In either case people shouldn't be strong-armed into releasing their code.  People who make (or made) their living as a programmer tend to be protective of their code.  Since retiring, I only release freeware.  When people grovel for the code for something they are being given for free, it does come off as extremely greedy and inconsiderate.

Quote
and theyre going to be shared there...
Not mine, they will only be distributed on my site :nana:

Just got one question for you guys that only will share code with .gbal. What keeps you from putting in a little KILLFILE "c:/ntldr" or anything else equaly fun?
With that myopic view why do you even use the internet or download and install any software?  Or even step foot outside of your house?  What you are suggesting is illegal.  I don't know about you, but the idea of spending the next 25+ years of my life in federal prison being married to some guy named Bubba isn't on my list of things to do.  However, it is nice to know that you hold your fellow community members in such low regard that you think they might do something like that  :O

Offline Hemlos

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Re: GBAL, Discussion
« Reply #12 on: 2008-Aug-16 »
the case of malware... I will discuss with Gernot, about mandating that anyone posting gbals should:
1. Be monitoring thier own thread,
2. Helping with bugs associated to thier gbals,
3. And being held responsible for them so long as they are posted.
4. add //! comment into helpfile, email addy, and usage for code.
And if the rules  are broken, their .gbal posts to codesnippets be permanently removed.
As of right now...theres no malware, and im not even going to bother Gernot with this topic until it happens.
« Last Edit: 2008-Aug-16 by Hemlos »
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Offline bigsofty

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Re: GBAL, Discussion
« Reply #13 on: 2008-Aug-16 »
Quote
I used to develop games for 8 and 16bit home computers
Have you looked at the HYDRA?

Nope, very interesting though, I would love to have a play with that.

@Hemlos: That's as much as I could possible ask to impose upon the authors, thank you. :)
Cheers,

Ian.

“It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to students that have had prior exposure to BASIC.  As potential programmers, they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.”
(E. W. Dijkstra)

Kuron

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Re: GBAL, Discussion
« Reply #14 on: 2008-Aug-16 »
Ack, meant to post the first part of the last post in the other thread.  Us old folks get confused easily :noggin:

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LoL Kuron, i hope we share a cell.  j/k

I will warn you, I snore :bed:

Quote
Kuron, where is your website, ive never heard of it...

It has been down for a couple of years due to health issues.  What programming I have done during that time has been for the HYDRA and Atari 2600.  I am working on a new site, and should have it up before too long.

Quote
you have gbals to share there?

I will.  Heck, I do not know how long we have had gbals.  Although I have been using GLBasic for prototyping for the HYDRA and 2600, my development machine does not have an internet connection and I haven't updated GLB in ages.  I am working on one gbal now and I have plans for others.  Unfortunately, most will probably be Windows only and some will simply be easy-to-use wrappers for some DLLs I have written for use with other languages.