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Main forum => Job offers / Hire a coder or artist => Topic started by: MrTAToad on 2015-Sep-09

Title: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: MrTAToad on 2015-Sep-09
It would be interesting to re-visit (and totally complete with a view to being fully release) my pseudo 3D game.  There is, as usual, one ever-so-slight problem : Lack of artistic skills :)  And lack of suitable free graphics.

I have got an engine already (as seen in the showroom), and I believe I sorted out what was causing the jiggling. 

The main need is graphics - for everything (cars, side scenery and background), of which there will be a lot.

Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: UBERmonkeybot on 2015-Sep-09
Sorry,I draw much like a 6 year old child.
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: Ian Price on 2015-Sep-09
If I only had the time... :(
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: MrTAToad on 2015-Sep-09
Sorry,I draw much like a 6 year old child.
This is my latest masterpiece...
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: erico on 2015-Sep-09
hehe, might be a quick draw, but I think the cat´s face carries expression!

A racer would be cool, specially during these "8-bit racer 80s" time.
I´m short on time these days...to much life stuff taking over.

But I sure can share some ideas:
If possible, please please super please, don´t break the resolution and skip transparencies.
The latest 8-bit racers I checked are all resolution broken, ye, the road´s polygons are at my state resolution while car and assets along the road are hardcore pixellated. Keep the art on the level of your road resolution at all costs. Secondly, please, don´t use transparent effects, like dust and so on, they make the game feel visually poor (imho).

I have lately delved into low res low color games, and Jonnection did a really well Hang Out clone here:
http://gamebuino.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1083

Page 3 has some animgifs of it and page 5 has some cars.

Gameplay wise, I would not delve too far away from classics like LOTUS.

What is the workload you have in mind? Any style favored?
Cheers.
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: Ian Price on 2015-Sep-09
That Hang-On inspired game, Isle of Maniax, looks awesome. That's definitey my cup of tea - OutRun, Hang-O, Enduro Racer - the SEGA saga!
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: erico on 2015-Sep-10
Yep, it is pretty good.

Also, you can go for 3d cars, like the trend of low poly pixel art texture.
This should easy up the amount of assets required.

Here an example:
http://wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=6977.0

Notice how Kennethfejer renders the first image, so the 3d resolution respects that of the texture. ;)
You could also do a paper cut model so fans of the game can play it real. :P

EDIT: Don´t forget to check the marvelous album REDLINE by Lazerhawk for inspiration, I´m sure you and Ian are going to enjoy it! :)
http://lazerhawk.bandcamp.com/album/redline
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: MrTAToad on 2015-Sep-10
Yes, I would like to keep it much like Lotus Challenge (but with a few extra things).
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: Kitty Hello on 2015-Sep-11
Does anyone remember SuperSprint? We played that a lot since it was multiplayer...
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: MrTAToad on 2015-Sep-11
Certainly do!
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: Ian Price on 2015-Sep-11
Yep, Super Sprint was truly great as a multi-player arcade game - second only to Gauntlet. :)
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: erico on 2015-Sep-11
Altough I dare say that gauntlet did not age well at all, while Super sprint is all fine today. just mho.
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: Ian Price on 2015-Sep-12
I disagree - Gauntlet is just as much fun and just as playable as it's always been.

Graphically very few games hold up after 30 years (although I still love the graphics), but the gameplay is where these type of games matter. And Gauntlet has it in spades.
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: erico on 2015-Sep-14
I sure want to clash my arguments with yours to check if my stand may change. :good:
But I will make a new thread about such so we don´t hijack Tatoad´s quest.

On topic, I play around a few communities of gfx people, I´d say it is important to have a good figure about what is needed.
You can check lotus sprite sheet to see what is up, and in a case of a racer like that, there are too many options on game design that can change gfx completely, the amount and quantities.

If you are using scaling, maybe you just need the closest sprite version to the camera (no closest, a bit before) and a version of the cars sideways and a few sets up and a bit less down.
If you are using 3d cars plotted over the road, you may need less art and more coding.
If you are going the lotus way, you may want specific art for a variation of depth sprites. It is always good to check the sprite sheets of those games.

I can recommend some communities, but you must know what is exactly that you want, specially in quantities, if they are to take the job seriously.

I can help a bit every now and then, I really would like to do such project as I always loved those racers...have plans myself for such, but no time and I´m a noob coder when it comes to speed.
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: MrTAToad on 2015-Sep-14
I've enquire on OpenGameArt to see if anyone knows of any free sprites (or is willing to do some).  If someone is willing to contemplate it, then I can detail exactly what will be needed.
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: sf-in-sf on 2015-Sep-17
Have you seen my example on creating random fractal clouds? The same principle is used to produce random terrain, like a rocky planet or whatever. Same to produce remote random fractal mountains, looking realistic because they are fractal. However I am convinced that using REAL pictures skillfully yields the best results.  Could you describe the game a bit? The context, principle, goal, any preview?
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: MrTAToad on 2015-Sep-17
If I could get (only) an animated ball, I want to do a cross between Eliminator and Trailblazer as that wont need split roads.

If I could get hold of appropriate sprites, I would like to do a 45+ stage racing game (with a few dead-ends, of sorts).  The game idea being that you have taken a bet to race from Penzance to the top of Unst, within 24 game hours, using only coastal roads.  You are also given a limited amount of money for paying speeding fines if you get caught, or you find yourself on a ferry to France (and have to pay to get back); for ferries to Unst or for "cheating" to pay for a freight plane to various locations.

I was thinking of setting traffic density based on UK work times.  The same with day/night and weather effects.

Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: erico on 2015-Sep-19
I see, so the grand plan is more of a rally game then a race-against-others.
Let us know how the search is going on. :good:
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: MrTAToad on 2015-Sep-19
So far, its not going anywhere  :(  It seems to be incredibly difficult (or even nigh on impossible) to find any open sourced appropriate graphics.

I do have some alternative game ideas though instead, including a remake (and update) to Spots.
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: GarBenjamin on 2015-Nov-06
Hey haven't been around in a while because I ended up doing a Halloween game in MX.

Anyway... have you tried checking out any of the asset sites out there for things like Unity and other game dev kits?

Some might have licenses prohibiting use outside of that specific tool but most I think do not. I am sure on the Unity Asset store you can find a ton of good models and other content. And since I am not a "fan boy" of any one kit and just a fan of game dev in general I see nothing wrong with it.
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: bigsofty on 2015-Nov-06
Unity Asset Store assets are all covered by "you can only buy this asset if you are using it within Unity" license. The easy way around this, is to use the specific assets support email address to contact the creator. Most will sell you their asset outside of the asset store via a PayPal gift. Nice way to avoid the Unity fee + tax as well.
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: GarBenjamin on 2015-Nov-06
@bigsofty that is a good way to go. Also many times these asset sellers have a website that sells the product or have them on generic 3rd party sites. There is a good amount of free stuff just on the Unity asset store and most people I think would just be happy to have a game use their work. That way they don't feel like it was a waste of time.
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: GarBenjamin on 2015-Nov-07
You may have already used these not sure. For 3D models I like to use the dedicated 3d model search engines.

A couple that are good are:

Yobi3D (https://www.yobi3d.com/#!/search?q=free%20low%20poly%20car)
3D Model Database (http://3dmdb.com/?q=free+low+poly+car)

There are a ton of sites out there with 3D models including free stuff but using these search aggregators is a lot more efficient way to find stuff I think.

Hope some of this stuff helps!


Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: GarBenjamin on 2015-Nov-08
For the heck of it I made a top down car and tried to keep it very simple as far as details go so it can be easily recolored and have any decals or other details added.

(http://garsgames.com/STUFF/6ColorCar.png)

If it is useful at all then feel free to use it because the only reason I made it was in response to this thread.

Unfortunately, I just now realized finally what you are after. You are not wanting models at all nor top down cars.
You are talking about a 2D sprite car much like Outrun. Wow, I was really dense.

Still... with 3d models you can just bring them into Blender or whatever your choice of 3D modeling app is adjust the viewpoint as needed then render it out. Rotate the car as needed render it out. So I still think 3D models are probably your best bet.

The next time I want a break from my own stuff I may take a shot at making a low color sprite car Outrun style.
Just not sure if that will be in the next week or next year. lol

Of course, I am not an artist. Just a programmer that has some art skills developed over the decades of working on game projects.
Probably someone around here can knock out a very cool 3d behind the car sprite for you!

UPDATE: Okay, I needed a brain break so took a shot at making the car from the behind it perspective.
Of course, really the viewpoint should be moved up above the car somewhat. But this is a step in that direction anyway.
At least from behind the car there is more shape(s) to show so it a more interesting image overall. From directly overhead a vehicle is fairly plain. At least based on the reference images I used.

Maybe we can make it a community project and someone else will do the next camera adjustment to put the vehicle into the proper perspective.

I need to get back to work on my own project.

Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: MrTAToad on 2015-Nov-10
Thanks for that - what I need to do get a 3D editor so I can save as a bitmap.  The ball I use is very nice, but needs to be reduced in size a lot - which, will, of course, affect quality.
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: GarBenjamin on 2015-Nov-11
Hey just wanted to let you know... I checked today and it is not correct that you can only use the assets from the Unity asset store in Unity projects. They grant you a worldwide license to use the assets in any game project or multimedia etc regardless of what it is made in. The exception is for the official Unity assets made by Unity themselves. Assets from the official tutorials and so forth. Those can only be used in Unity projects.

So there is a ton of great stuff over there you can use.
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: Corax on 2015-Nov-12
This is a rather crude idea but if you have a digital camera, you could make photos of matchbox cars.
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: GarBenjamin on 2015-Nov-12
@Corax that is actually a great idea. Not to use them as taken (digitized) but to use as references.

Every programmer can draw much better than they think they can. The biggest reason most cannot draw very well that I have seen is because they don't use reference images. And yet every artist I know does use reference images. Many references in fact.

It is how I was going to do the above and behind drawing next for the car. Literally get up in the back of my pickup and take photos of the car. Then turn the wheel in the car and angle the car and repeat. With those as reference images I could then draw a car in the view needed. But not just sit there and start drawing with no reference. A matchbox car would be ideal. Just put it in the viewpoint you need then draw it. Turn it (and wheels too if possible) and draw it. A radio controlled car would be even better probably.

The second biggest difference I've seen between artists and programmers is the amount of time they spend on an image. I've done a lot of programmer art. And worked with several artists on projects. I'll draw a tile in 2 minutes or a character in 10 minutes. They'll draw a tile in 5 to 15 minutes and a character in 30 minutes to hours. One artist I know who does fantastic work told me he can easily spend up to 1 hour just on the arm of a single animated character sprite. The entire character may take a full day's worth of effort.

So.... use references and take your time! You'll probably find you can make much better game graphics than you think you can!
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: erico on 2015-Nov-14
Yep, I agree, but about time, the scale you said seems to me that it should be way way way higher.
Maybe if that relates to the time needed to pull out the ´tech´ work you need to achieve the art, it still sounds a bit low.
But making full art as a creator requires the time with the references, research and a lot of try outs, unless you get a layout, like a publicity agency.

You can and should put up some method into it, deliver layouts, mockups, references, place holders, achedule and planned scoped work to your artist so that he knows what it is about, it gives confidence. Then it will be less about creating and more about executing, then it can be fast and cheap.

But seriously, if you don´t deploy anything at all, no artist is going to take the go, unless unexperienced chaps looking for a chance to portfolio, in which case, the stakes on getting it done is doubtless (but I like the option, to work with new people). Be aware of the daily price of art execution (not creation), at a somehow competent level, should be around 200-800 dollars freelance.

I agree you should also look into it, some styles are easier to pull by oneself, and many cases can fit your bill.
The photograph choice is great, you will have to do some clean up on photoshop later, but I like the idea. :good:

Anyways, if you can advance your game idea, code and all, with place holders, the better the chance someone will pop up, since at that time things will pretty much be on scale as the code dictates.

When looking for something you don´t wanna do yourself and commercially, the more done on your part before you ask, the better.

I can lend a hand to you Mr. T should you need it for something to get the game and coding more advanced, like a layout/place holder to art.
Time is an issue on my end as I am the freelance artist I just described, I can´t promise anything, but I have good will.
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: sf-in-sf on 2015-Nov-15
This is a rather crude idea but if you have a digital camera, you could make photos of matchbox cars.
Excellent idea! Forget the "crude", it's a v.good technique. Some great digital artists start drawing on paper, they scan the paper, and make the clean, digital, image on top. (who was this guy showing how he designs some great buttons for GUI?)
So yes, use the picture as a guide, draw/modify on top, and finally remove the guide.
A longer focal lenght flattens the subject, weakens the perspective. It could be an advantage for 2.5D sprites.
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: erico on 2015-Nov-15
I saw your latest video, the engine is really advanced. :good:
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: MrTAToad on 2015-Nov-15
Ah, you saw version #3 then, eh ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s607zLyk5nc

The next thing will be decided on the players size, finding a suitable object and then getting it animated.  Going to have to get a 3D editor for that, I think...

Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: erico on 2015-Nov-16
Uau, that is a case!! :good:

My only complain is that the player´s position is too off screen when going down a hill, but I guess that is an easy adjustment to what you have so far and that such adjustment needs the actual player.

I´m not sure you need a 3d package yet, your player could be a 3d box that you can easily render out of glb itself saved as bmp.
If those sprites match, then you have a good thing going. :good:

Again, I´d advise that the floor ground should always be visible.
You did see the isle gamebuino game I talked about before right?
Title: Re: Pseudo 3D car/vehicles etc etc
Post by: MrTAToad on 2015-Nov-17
Yes,  the positioning I want to update, so that it can go flying over hills without the camera adjusting its height - but that sort of thing will come much later.

Once the player size has been fixed, I can then get the collision detection up and running along with the tiles.

Quote
isle gamebuino game
Yes - its very clever!